Comments, when do they cross a line?

May 11, 2010, 12:47 p.m.

The Homicide Report has changed its request for comments to better reflect the scope of posts that the report has invited since it began in January 2007. Instead of “Share a Memory,” readers are now asked to “Share a memory or thought” about the homicide victim. Also, links are provided to frequently asked questions about our practice of including killings by police, and the race/ethnicity of victims and suspects. A resource list for victims' families is also available.

The change was made in part to stem debate among readers about what is appropriate on the Homicide Report. Some readers have been upset by critical comments and protested that The Times was inviting only memories. In response, we have clarified on individual comment threads that our intent always has been to create a forum both for victims to be remembered and for readers to discuss the impact and causes of violence in communities.

On Tuesday, “Aleks” posted a comment criticizing The Times for approving comments of family members fighting among themselves on a victim’s page. “This is by far the most offensive thing you can do to a person KILLED. They would never want to be exposed like this in a million years. If you would simply say post your comment, but no, and therefore we have this embarassing, needless, and idiotic drama which plays out on the comment boards.”

The comment also said: “I mean, you know the paper is at a low point when, in the year 2010 there is an article which headline reads: ‘Why does the paper use racial identifiers.’”

What do readers think? Is it offensive to allow critical comments or to permit families to disagree on a public forum? Is it a “low point” to address why the report identifies the race of victims and alleged perpetrators?

-- Megan Garvey

42 reader comments

EyeOpener: I never said anyone was keeping anyone down. If you took the time to read ALL of my comment I said we need a solution to the crimes committed by the blacks and the browns and that the news papers dont really report other races that commit the same crimes. And you are correct in saying that the majority of crimes in southern california are committed by blacks & browns- Does that make it right to attack someone for their oppinion? I was not nor do I blame anyone for what goes on in cali, I stated what I feel is true in regard to the media reporting some crimes and not others. Believe me there are more murders than have made the news in some communities and most of them unsolved. So "eyeopener" Open you mind and try and see the other perspective and OPEN YOUR EYE'S

— Weezy May 19, 2010 at 7:47 a.m.

You are so right CALI.. besides cheap housing, free childcare-education, foodstamps, medical on and on. We should do more for these poor victims of poverty. We are obviously NOT doing enough!
Seems the one that needs a reality check is YOU! You are doing nothing for them by making excuses for these sorry losers of society… by accepting the lifestyle “they didn’t ask to be born into, have no money, you don’t know what it’s like.. etc.” you are as much to blame! Suck it up and enjoy your neighborhood, knowing you are part of the problem w your curved anger and ignorance!

Side NOTE :
Recently I attended a meeting at a high school in one of these HR killing zones.. enrolled students on track are 600+ currently.. It started 45mins late in hopes more people showed.. I was one of 26 people there. What does that say about these communities???

There are plenty of people on this blog that care and do not get intimidated that are going nowhere,, Get over it!

— YURI May 17, 2010 at 7:23 p.m.

How long have Gangs in L.A been going at each other.....Idiot....That's My point...ITS NOT GOING TO STOP......PERIOD. no matter what you say,who you write to......Don't you think every Mayor tries to stamp out Gangs......What Happens.....Not a Damn Thing. I'm A Realist.....Nothing is Stopping Gangs.......NOTHING.... So have it it with your Gang Bashing. I'm Through talking to idiots who don't live in the real world. I Guess you and your idiots friends who don't know nothing about what you are speaking on.....your just a bunch of Silver Spoon fed Punks, who live in some alternate reality. A Coward sits in the house on their computers talking abut peoples lives who they know nothing about. This Idiot thinks people live in bad neighborhoods cause they want to....How can someone who never struggled a day in their life...Judge Us..... Then you say ...Get a job , Move..... It's not that easy......Maybe for some of you Goody two shoes who got out and now look down upon people still here...... Argue on Idiots in your alternate realities.

— CALI May 16, 2010 at 8:24 p.m.

You know, I think we have hit on the great divide on this blog, (and possibly Los Angeles itself). We can't even agree that there is a problem.

If we were to break down the number of murders a week, (let's say it's twelve), six or seven would be gang-related. Four or five would be domestic related and one or two would be a real murder mystery that would capture the interest of the media.

The domestic tragedies are talked about for a day and filed away. The murder mysteries capture our imagination for awhile until they too blend into the background. But the gang-related killings are so ingrained in the day to day life of LA that they are barely discussed. Except for here on this Homicide Report blog.

It's these endless murders that highlight the division of the readers. We can't even agree that being in a gang is a bad thing. If we can't agree on that, we will never agree on how best to remember their lives. You're either of the mindset that they are worthless criminals who got was coming to them or you're sad that another gangster was gunned down. Of course, those who loved them don't think of them as gangsters. You would need to start another blog just to try to explain the allure of gangs and why people don't see anything wrong with being in one.

It's these two divergent mindsets that constantly clash in the comments. One side sees the good in him, the other just sees another dead gangster. Hope he's in a better place or good riddance? Gangs are bad for LA or a proud way to live? We'll never solve this problem here so we'll keep arguing until the next gangster gets shot.

— JB May 14, 2010 at 10:28 p.m.

Comment cross the line when people like Syscum....Make it about them....nobody cares what you write to your legislature . ITS ALWAYS ABOUT HIM...AND WHAT HE THINKS...I'm Sick of reading this guy's hate on slain family members boards...torturing them even further......they try to leave a comment, and have to read this guy's personal agenda on how he thinks people should live.....SICK OF IT...and I also thinks he works for Times also.....They come to this guy defense every time no matter what he writes......They need to start a forum for those who want to discuss that .....I bet it wont be many people in there...only him and his cronies......Get A LIFE, A GRIP , A GIRLFRIEND...DO SOMETHING...OTHER THAN TORTURING PEOPLES FAMILIES WITH YOUR HATRED..Check older people or person not of minority .....he says nothing...only to gang members.....We get it you don't like Gangs.....but Gangs are a part of L.A'S Culture....THEY'RE NOT GOING ANYWHERE...PERIOD..They have family too , and they need to be respected. Not Dissected and tortured.

— CALI May 14, 2010 at 1:17 p.m.

This site is neccessary because it gives background on the dozen or so murders that happen each week in LA County. I was looking for the full story on some of these cases, (as the TV stations cover it for a day and move on), so getting comments from the victim's friends and families is very neccessary to trying to understand the person who was killed.

Of course, what you see in the comments time and time again is the family and friends glossing over whatever misdeeds and dangerous lifestyle choices the victim may have made before becoming a murder victim. If that person was a truly innocent victim, then say so. We should be getting angry at these murders. We should be getting angry at having to use a website to remember a brutal murder. People who didn't know the victim also have a right to ask questions about the circumstances surrounding the death as we live here too and want to know what is going on in our City of Angels.

Some times though, the LA Times will have to make some editorial judgments on when to stop a back and forth between commenters. When the topic is no longer about the murder victim and becomes a tirade between faceless commenters, it needs to be put to a halt. It's getting old and tiresome seeing these comment boards break down into who can use the most CAP LOCKS to stress their unhappiness.

— JB May 12, 2010 at 12:31 p.m.

First I would like to say that I am new to the HR- I find it interesting and informative. I ask myself why so many people are so mean and rude in the blog, then I realized that it is just how they feel. I think it is okay to make comments that may or may not spark conversation,but, at least acknowledge the family's loss before you make a negative comment about the victim, before you judge them for their lifestyle. None of us knows the victim like the family does, they know the other side of the (gang member or drug dealer) the side of a gentle son or a great uncle or just a good friend. So just consider the families left behind to deal with the loss of their loved one's when you make your comments. The race of the victim is important so that we as a society can see how sad & out of control murder is and to recognize how little the black & brown race care about human life. It is a lesson for my daughters to see how young and how many young men and women die just being in the right place at the wrong time can sometimes be the place you die.
For Avid reader: There are white & asian kids shooting each other - it just never makes the news because it is more interesting to continue to say only blacks & browns do violent crimes, only blacks & browns sell drugs-bottom line-The news only wants to keep people like you thinking the worst of people like me. No matter how it is looked at it is a shame that any human being should be murdered in such a sad ,violent way and that it is so easy to use a gun or knife and we as a society only blog about it, never coming up with a solution to stop the madness!!!

— WEEZY May 12, 2010 at 7:35 a.m.

These comments are exacty where they need to be. These gang bangers that destroy lives with the crimes they commit while alive and the victims they leave behind need some where to vent. These pages are not for the weak but neither is the life they they lead. As long as the comments fall into a pre established guildline(s)all comments should be posted. After the death of a loved one even the comments between family members are all part of the healing process...may be it is the best open communication that a family has had in years? May be this site will contribute to either cutting the ties for good or allowing someone to understand another persons reason for certain actions. Either way this blog has been very helpful to many and should continue as is for a very long time. I for one find the "conversations" between people intersting if not down right enlighting. Thank you Times.

— SJP May 11, 2010 at 11:22 p.m.

If we were to read the actual police reports, the ethnicity of both the victim and the perpetrator would be stated. This isn't an issue or racism, as many commenters love to point out, but just an issue of FACTS, just as saying someone is "MALE" or "FEMALE."

Besides, I think this blog can give readers a sense of what is happening in this city beyond their safe neighborhoods. If anything, this should be a call to action to the minorities (re: African-American, Hispanics) to change their communities and the glorified lifestyle of violence in their youth. It's very rare you see white kids running around shooting each other -- and not just middle-class or rich whites.

Instead of bashing the Times for doing their job, commenters, why don't you talk to your kids and your friends about the dangers of joining a gang and participating in violence? Why don't you make sure your kids go to school? Why don't you give values such as compassion and tolerance? None of those things cost money, so don't use that as an excuse.

— Avid Reader May 11, 2010 at 7:01 p.m.

I find it fascinating to read the comments that people leave regarding someone's death. Even though the comments aren't always tasteful or polite, I think that such debates are healthy and may even serve as a lesson to young men who are caught up in the "drama" of the street.

I know there are plenty of innocent victims who are profiled on this site, but it seems the majority of homicide victims in L.A. County are young men involved with gangs. The fact that people make rude or insensitive comments here only reflects the anger and frustration people feel towards gang members. We can't confront a homicidal gang member and tell them how much we hate their activities, so when we read this site, that pent-up anger often comes pouring out.

— James May 11, 2010 at 5:19 p.m.

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Comments, when do they cross a line?

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